Pope Francis did the right thing when others would not, says residential school survivor

As It Happens·Q&A

Phil Fontaine spent decades pushing the Catholic Church to apologize for its role in Canada's residential school system, to no avail — until Pope Francis answered the call.

Francis — known as a progressive force inside the church, and a champion for the disenfranchised — died on Easter Monday at the age of 88.

Between the 1870s and the 1990s, Canada's federal government took more than 150,000 First Nations, Métis and Inuit children away from their families and forced them to attend church-run schools designed to strip them of their languages and cultures, according to the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation at the University of Manitoba.

Abuse and neglect were rampant at the schools and thousands of children died from disease, malnutrition, suicide and more.

In 2022, Francis delivered a landmark apology for the Catholic Church's role in those institutions, first to a delegation of Indigenous leaders at the Vatican, and then again in Maskwacis, Alta., and several more times as he toured Canada.

Fontaine, former chief of the Assembly of First Nations and a residential school survivor, was part of that Vatican delegation, and he was there for the Pope's historic first apology in Canada. He spoke to As It Happens guest host Stephanie Skenderis about Francis's legacy. Here is part of their conversation.

When it comes to his relationship with Indigenous people, what do you think the legacy of Pope Francis will be?

Francis's relationship with Indigenous Peoples is profound, because he was the first Pope to ever apologize for the church's wrongdoing with our peoples. And more importantly, he asked for forgiveness.

It took a long time to get that apology. You first travelled to the Vatican in 2009 to try to get one from Pope Benedict. What do you think was different about Pope Francis and his approach to the harms that were done by the Catholic Church that led to his apology in 2022?

Pope Francis was a compassionate person. He was humble. His humility took him to a place where his predecessors were unable to go.

He understood that burden was on the church to bring out the truth of the church's treatment of Aboriginal Peoples, in particular, the residential school experience. And he was prepared to do something about that challenge.

He knew, because he had heard so many times, that our people wanted an apology from the Vatican, from the Pope. And there was a lot of pressure not to apologize. Because the Pope also has a relationship with the Canadian bishops and the priests, and there is a significant divide amongst the bishops, some that wanted to apologize, some that didn't.

In the end, the Pope decided that he was going to do the right thing.

This responsibility then fell on the shoulders of the rest of the Catholic Church entities in Canada. And so we now have an opportunity to work on reconciliation together, to bring about healing … between the Catholic Church entities and our people, and in the process of reconciliation, share the truth of this experience with all Canadians, not just with our people.

WATCH | The Pope's historic Canadian apology for residential schools:

Pope Francis has apologized for members of the Catholic Church who co-operated with Canada's "devastating" policy of Indigenous residential schools, saying the forced assimilation of Indigenous peoples into Christian society destroyed their cultures, severed their families and marginalized generations in ways still being felt today. Support is available for anyone affected by their experience at residential schools or by these reports. A national Indian Residential School Crisis Line has been set up to provide support for former students and those affected. People can access emotional and crisis referral services by calling the 24-hour national crisis line: 1-866-925-4419.

After that visit to Canada where he apologized and where he asked for forgiveness, Pope Francis also denounced the Doctrine of Discovery, this declaration that the land being colonized was terra nullius, nobody's land, empty, justifying Indigenous lands being seized. Why was it so important for you to hear that from the Vatican?

It was important because the Church had refused to denounce the doctrine for such a long time. That doctrine became embedded in U.S. law, as it is in Canada. And so the Catholic Church, in the early days of exploration of North and South America brought forward this doctrine that caused so much harm to our people, dispossessed our peoples of their lands, and, of course, tried to eradicate any sense of spirituality that our peoples followed.

Denouncing the Doctrine of Discovery, while it may not result in some fundamental shift in U.S. and Canadian law, it certainly ... enabled us to make our case more clearly and more persuasively than may have been possible before.

It was highly symbolic. And he knew that. He understood that. As was his statement on genocide. We'd never heard someone say those words in such a commanding way as when Pope Francis said what the Indigenous Peoples experienced here in Canada was genocide. We had others speak about cultural genocide, but the reference to genocide has heavier, more serious legal implications than cultural genocide.

WATCH | Pope Francis describes residential school system as genocide:

Pope Francis described Canada's residential school system and its forced assimilation of Indigenous children as genocide. Brock Pitawanakwat, the co-ordinator of the Indigenous Studies program at York University, called the Pope's comments 'late,' but said they were an 'important development.'

You talked about the road to reconciliation and how much is left on that road. These things that were done and said by Pope Francis, of course, don't erase the trauma that was caused by the Catholic Church. And he's been criticized for not going far enough in his apology. What is still left to be done?

We never expected the Pope's apology to erase all of the harms that had been inflicted on our people. But what it did was set the stage for the next steps that have to be taken by church entities in Canada.

It compels both sides to collaborate, to work together, and figure out how we're going to conquer this terrible mess that still lingers on in our communities.

There will eventually now be a new Pope. Are you confident in the groundwork that Pope Francis laid on this, or do you have any worry that this era could be over, that the next Pope won't be so open and so inclusive?

There's that possibility that we'll get a different kind of Pope [with] different thinking. But I think the College of Cardinals are poised to carry on with the legacy of Pope Francis, because there are so many cardinals that have been made, or so many archbishops that are now cardinals, from the Third World, and they will have a huge influence on who the next Pope will be.

More directly speaking, we have to work with the Canadian bishops and those underneath them: priests and brothers and sisters. And they've heard the message loud and clear, and they're not going to be able to turn their backs on our people or Canadians.

On a personal level, Mr. Fontaine, you spent so long fighting to affect change to get this apology. How are you reflecting on that time now?

I want to be clear on this matter. I never thought that I was doing this alone, that I was out in the wilderness by myself so to speak. I knew that a lot of people were as committed as I was and just as determined to try and resolve this issue.

The challenge we've had all along is that Canadians simply did not know about the residential school experience. It was an incredibly dark chapter in Canadian history, but unknown to most Canadians. The composition of Canada has changed so significantly, so the challenge has become even more serious. We have to educate and inform others about this Canadian story that has affected so many in terrible ways.

We have a lot of work ahead of us. It isn't going to be easy to resolve this issue, and we just can't wish it away.

A national 24-hour Indian Residential School Crisis Line is available at 1-866-925-4419 for emotional and crisis referral services for survivors and those affected.

Mental health counselling and crisis support are also available 24 hours a day, seven days a week through the Hope for Wellness hotline at 1-855-242-3310 or by online chat.